ASSUMPATIONS VS BIBLE TRUTHS RE HEAVEN IS REAL
ABOUT COLTON BURPO’S EXPERIENCES
| BIBLE VS ASSUMPATIONS ABOUT THE BIBLE
NOTE: I, too have been through many dreadful church experiences . . . some of which almost or even for a time, somewhat to largely ship-wrecked my faith.
I well and keenly recognize the desperate urge, tendency, even compulsion to try and carve out some pretended tidy little boxed theology/Christianity—for comfort; for the easy way out; to avoid tension-filled hassles, dilemmas, choices, HAVING TO DECIDE, CHOOSE, HEAR GOD’S VOICE about so many details and obey . . . rarely quite confident of clear boundaries through the wilderness in such a ‘FLY BY HOLY SPIRIT and the seat of my pants’ spiritual and life-walk.
I well and keenly recognize that tempting draw such a “Christianity” holds for mortals. However, God has NEVER let me get away with such a perspective and life-style.
Evidently, some, He either does or He doesn’t make forcing them out of it near the priority HE seems to have made it for me. If the reader is one of those for whom God seems to have said—fine—enjoy your tidy little boxes—what can I say.
I’m skeptical that ANYONE SERIOUSLY WANTING TO GO WHOLE HOG AND UTTERLY ABANDONED TO GOD—will find that to be God’s stance with them.
However, I’m aware that we each are somewhat in the driver’s seat as to how far we are willing to go with God.
NEVERTHELESS, it is GOD’S NATURE and normal requirement to REQUIRE ALL OF US—just as He required of Abraham in offering up Isaac.
And in my Christian walk, a PERSISTENT ABSOLUTELY ALL aspect has been—MY NOTIONS AND ASSUMPTIONS about even Scripture and certainly about what I ASSUMED to comprise, safely and totally encompass the Christian walk.
Such an experience, I’ve noticed IN THE BIBLE, is entirely consistent with Scripture. He has REPEATEDLY THROUGHOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT AND NEW TESTAMENT—pressed those who Loved Him BEYOND the stereotypic tidy little boxed RELIGIOUS UNDERSTANDINGS of their day—some of which GOD HIMSELF HAD CONSTRUCTED earlier. He has certainly persistently, relentlessly pressed them beyond their COMFORT ZONES.
WE TEND to equate our comfort zones with, EQUAL TO the PUREST, MOST COMPLETE, MOST ACCURATE, REALLLLLY KOSHER FORM OF CHRISTIANITY—in contrast to those other simpletons who don’t quite get it as well as WE do.
God has a different perspective. To HIS perspective, all ours are simpletons and miss the boat—often in some pretty significant ways.
EVERY RELIGIOUS problem of Scripture that I recall, involving a given perspective or ‘IN-GROUP’ mentality—involved HUMAN, MORTAL EFFORTS to REDUCE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD—TO A FORMULA—SOME PREDICTABLE, STRUCTURED, STAID, . . . put-the-quarters-in-the-Heavenly-vending-machine—get-the-God-result-out type of “Judaism” or “Christianity.”
It’s a normal mortal response.
GOD HAS A BETTER IDEA.
GOD WANTS A DANCE—A NON-CHOREOGRAPHED DANCE—WHERE-IN HE IS IN CONTROL STEP BY STEP.
That freaks even most Christians out.
However, those who persist, persevere into a deepening DYNAMIC DANCE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD discover dimensions of God and relating to God that others have little or no concept of and less to no EXPERIENCE OF.
How do you think God feels about THAT?
Most parents with several kids know that some kids just naturally seem to be closer, more like a given parent. And others seem to be off in space or at least on a long tether stretched about as far as they can stretch it away from the loving parents.
It’s not necessarily that the more distant children want to disown the parents. They just want to control their lives more independently and MORE ON THEIR TERMS—and quite a bit more distantly.
How does that feel to the parents?
How do you think Almighty God feels about such a stance on the part of His kids?
PARTICULARLY when HE KNOWS that there are coming some incidents ahead in the life of each kid—when maximum overcoming health and safety will depend on the closest possible relationship with God?
Looking at it from another angle . . .
We were bought for a priceless price—the Blood of Jesus.
What right do we have . . . what right does the pot have . . . telling the potter—no thanks, I don’t want to be a banquet piece. I’d rather be a chamber pot, thank you very much!
What do we mean when we sing: ALL TO JESUS . . . I SURRENDER ALL . . .
. . . except, OF COURSE, how we DEFINE RELATING TO GOD! Our DAFFYNITION HAS TO PREVAIL! OUR ASSUMPTIONS HAVE TO PREVAIL. God can just keep HIS to Himself, thank you very much—seems to be the stance of the tidy boxed crowd.
May God have mercy on such immature ceekiness.
I’ve used your msg as a spring-board to reply to the whole set of perspectives and mentalities that I’ve experienced as similar to your own. The below is NOT designed as a personal rant against you personally. I believe the tidy-boxed perspective that I see yours within, or part of or an example of—to be hazardous to the UTMOST FOR HIS HIGHEST sort of RELATIONSHIP with God that Believes are to aspire to. Therefore, I feel it is worth the time, energy and forcefulness of the below.
I have mentioned some Biblical support for my views. I hope you see them as that.
I pray Holy Spirit through Scripture and outside of scripture in HIS DIALGOUES WITH YOU—will make HIS views of such narratives and particularly of this one—abundantly clear to you—and others.
BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD!
| RELIGION & RELIGIOUS ASSUMPTIONS
HAVE BEEN IN CONTRAST TO
TOO OFTEN IN STUBBORN, PROUD, SELF-RIGHTEOUS
WHAT GOD WAS, IN FACT, DOING
THROUGHOUT RECORDED HISTORY.
However, I don’t recommend it, at all
For those wanting to be closest to God
And walking most in His Will.
|RNMomOf7: If the promise of scripture is not enough for someone I do not know what to say|| Qx: The promise of Scripture is not enough? For what?
I’ve never said Scripture was not enough for Salvation!
On the other hand, Where in Scripture does it say to buy house “B” instead of house “A?”
Where in Scripture does it say to avoid marrying Sam and to mary Bill instead?
Where in Scripture does it say to take this career route instead of that career route?
ACTUALLY, SCRIPTURE SAYS CHRIST’S SHEEP HEAR HIS VOICE.
1. Either Christ told the truth in that verse or Christ lied.
2. Given that Christ CANNOT lie, it must be THE TRUTH.
3. Given that it’s THE TRUTH, Believers either HEAR HIS VOICE or A) they have spiritually plugged up ears and bad spiritual hearing; &/or
4. They just think they are believers in fellowship with Him but really are more candidates for “Depart from me, I never knew you.”
| 5-7 RNMomOf7:
Remember the transfiguration? John and Peter were not allowed to speak to Moses or Elijah ..
1. THAT’S AN ASSUMPTION UNSUPPORTED BY THE SCRIPTURE.
2. So what? Even if true—There’s NO indication that such HAD TO BE NORMATIVE in such cases. ASSUMING IT HAD TO BE NORMATIVE would be an ASSUMPTION UNSUPPORTED BY SCRIPTURE.
3. God may well have not wanted anything said between them to be recorded.
4. SOME Heavenly visitors are allowed to talk to the Patriarchs of the Old and New Testament and some are definitely not. There’s no indication as to what the distinction is based on.
| 8-10 RNMomOf7:
Do you REALLY believe this kid was sitting hanging out with the Holy Spirit?
2. JESUS SAID—SUFFER THE LITTLE CHILDREN TO COME UNTO ME. And, that unless we approach God like a little child, WE WON’T MAKE HEAVEN AT ALL.
3. Why wouldn’t Holy Spirit enjoy time with Colton like that?
A) It’s entirely Scriptural.
| 11-12 RNMomOf7:
Where did He tell us of the saints crying out from under the altar for vengeance?
1. Say Whut?
2. What’s that got to do with the price of tea in China?
3. That Scripture was part of a particular passage written for our edification for a particular set of purposes that evidently had little or nothing to do with what God had in mind and purposed vis a vis Colton’s Heavenly visitation.
4. Are you claiming that God is not allowed to act like ALMIGHTY GOD . . . unless He does so according to YOUR SENSIBILITIES, ASSUMPTIONS, PRESUMPTIONS AND SCRIPT?
5. I wouldn’t recommend trying to maintain that stance and pretend that you can do so and walk close to Him at the same time. HE INSISTS ON BEING IN THE DRIVER’S SEAT—IN ALL RESPECTS.
6. It’s beginning to sound like you have most Scriptures in extremely narrowly defined tidy little boxes.
7. Have you REALLY NEVER experienced the multi-layered, multi-dimensional quality of Scripture wherein God can enlighten, enliven, enrich with ever unfolding NEW understandings and amplifications of sometime a verse we’ve read many hundreds of times and never quite seen that way before?
8. GOD NOR HIS HEAVEN WILL EVER FIT IN SUCH A tiny little box.
| 5-7 RNMomOf7:
Do you really think Jesus told him to “be nice” ? he must be saved if he was in heaven..did he share his testimony? …
1. Of course I believe Jesus said that to Colton!
2. Why wouldn’t Jesus talk to Colton at least partly in terms Colton was used to? Hint: Jesus happens to be THE EXPERT IN ALL CREATION of incarnating and condescending to the level of those He Loves—to the point of THE CROSS to die in our stead! And Scripture says He’s touched with the feelings of our infirmities. Why wouldn’t He speak to Colton in Colton’s familiar terms?
3. I don’t recall in the book anything about the parents having led the 4 year old through the plan of Salvation; confession, repentance etc. I’m confident from what I did read in the book that Colton had always been brought up with the knowledge that Jesus was God; came in the flesh etc. and was the only way to the Father.
4. I have every confidence that such was Colton’s heart attitude toward God and Jesus regardless of everything else.
5. Certainly Christ relates to all of us most in terms of our heart attitudes toward God. Thankfully!
6. I assure you, Colton has been a heavy duty witness about Christ Jesus ever since his Heavenly visitation. Even before the book was published, he was uncertain he wanted to go through with it. IT’S NOT ABOUT ME, DAD. . . . meaning it was all about JESUS. They finally decided that JESUS WOULD GET MORE GLORY and CHRIST’S KINGDOM WOULD BE MORE ENHANCED by publishing the book than if they didn’t.
7. Do you REALLY think, believe, PRESUME THAT THAT GODLY HEART ATTITUDE CAME FROM SATAN? If so, that’s uncomfortably close to attributing something of Holy Spirit to satan, imho.
| 5-7 RNMomOf7:
Quix I have pity on people that look for extra biblical things to find comfort that should be sufficient in the scriptures..
1. Certainly Scriptures were designed to be a comfort to Believers. “Comfort one another with these words . . . “
2. However, it is an UNBiblical ASSUMPTION that God CONFINED ALL HIS COMFORTS for His kids to the wood pulp and ink!
3. Scripture is clear that HOLY SPIRIT IS OUR COMFORTER!
4. Do you REALLY ASSUME, PRESUME that HOLY SPIRIT—WHO SUSTAINS THE VERY FABRIC OF REALITY—IS TOTALLY CONFINED TO WOOD PULP AND INK? God have mercy!
5. Scripture speaks of our entertaining angels unaware. By your ASSUMPTIONS, PRESUMPTIONS, ANGELS WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to comfort us, aid us etc. We’d have to hit demons over the head with the wood pulp and ink or forget it! What nonsense!
6. Scripture exhorts us to comfort and encourage one another with singing hymns. Your perspective would not allow that unless maybe we were ONLY singing the text from the wood pulp and ink! God’s anointed creativity through song writers through the ages would have to be trashed! What nonsense!
7. Evidently God gave Paul and others in the beginning of this CHURCH ERA Heavenly visitations—for God’s purposes! I can’t imagine that such were for punishment vs comfort and encouragement!
8. Scripture indicates that such supernatural manifestations and incidents will increase close to the time of Christ’s return. This book is evidence, fulfillment of those scriptures.
9. Such experiences are not to be worshiped or put in an inordinate place, perspective, value.
10. Neither is God happy with folks trashing them.
| 5-7 RNMomOf7:
The words of this child and his ghost writer are not infallible scripture..
1. Good Grief, Charlie Brown!
2. NO ONE’S TRYING TO ENSCRIPTURATE Colton’s narrative!
3. Scripture is clear that were all Christ’s doings written down, the earth could not contain them. EVIDENTLY GOD SAW FIT TO LEAVE TONS OF STUFF OUT OF SCRIPTURE—FOR HIS PURPOSES! So what. HE GETS TO ACT LIKE GOD about *HIS* WORD, BECAUSE HE *IS* GOD! And you & I are not.
4. God clearly designed Colton’s experiences and narrative and book as a blessing to Believers and to God’s Kingdom in this era. Folks can throw it back in God’s face, if they wish. I don’t recommend that response.
| 5-7 RNMomOf7:
We need to remember that Satan walks around seeing who he may devour.. He is the great deceiver..
1. THAT’S A GROSSLY UNBIBLICAL association with this narrative. May God have mercy.
2. SCRIPTURE IS CLEAR THAT THE BIBLICAL CRITERIA IS WHETHER THE SOURCE, PERSONAGE AFFIRMS THAT CHRIST CAME IN THE FLESH, is King of Kings, Lord of Lords . . . the basic doctrines of the faith—WHICH THIS BOOK AFFIRMS LOUDLY AND CLEARLY.
3. Therefore, by the BIBLE’S OWN STANDARD, CRITERIA Colton’s narrative MUST be assessed as BEING FROM GOD. Any other assumptions, presumptions are GROSSLY UNBIBLICAL!
4. Another Biblical criteria is fruit. The fruit of Colton’s narrative is that thousands of people have been comforted and brought into a Salvation experience with Jesus because of their reading Colton’s story or hearing about it. Satan’s efforts don’t produce that kind of fruit for God’s Kingdom.
5. There’s no explanation for Colton meeting his stillborn sister whom he’d never heard a single thing about—except that HE MET HER IN. . . DRUM ROLL . . . HEAVEN! DOH!
6. There’s no explanation for his meeting his SAVED great granpa whom he’d never known—except that he met him in . . . drum roll . . . HEAVEN! And, he affirmed his looks only after seeing a picture of him about the age folks routinely are . . . drum roll . . . IN HEAVEN!—usually about 25-30 years old by appearance. He didn’t recognize an older picture of him.
7. Folks in hell, look more haggared, more aged, more deteriorated. What a surprise! Not.
| 5-7 RNMomOf7:
The truth is this book could be 100% fiction and a scam couldn’t it???
NOT by a trillion miles & more!
2. NOT, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE’S OWN CRITERIA noted above.
3. NOT according to the abundant Biblical fruit for and into Christ’s Kingdom in terms of souls saved and Believers comforted and drawn closer to God thereby.
4. NOT according to the many lies of satan this book grandly trashes wholesale.
| 5-7 RNMomOf7:
My friend, we test everything against scripture.. not popes,not tradition, not modern prophets and not the words of a child,,.. if it does not pass the scriptural test we need to reject it..and find our comfort and joy and assurance in the word of God
1. Of course we test everything against Scripture like the Bereans. They did not THROW out the new things God was doing because they didn’t fit their tidy little !!!!TRADITIONAL!!!! boxes. They just made sure they lined up with Scripture. Wise Bereans.
2. Of course we find comfort and joy in Scripture. Nevertheless, God is too big to 100% totally and only within the confines of the wood pulp and ink. CHRIST IS THE LIVING WORD, after all!
3. In a number of Scriptures, God advertises that on occasion, HE MAKES ALL THINGS NEW. And, rarely did Christ heal any two people the exact same way.
4. HE’S A VERY VERY VERY CREATIVE GOD!
5. I’ve read a lot of Heavenly visitation narratives. None of them are identical. Yet the reliable convincing ones are entirely Biblical—though they may NOT fit my ASSUMPTIONS about Scripture. They do fit Scripture.
NOTE: I write the above generically toward those who have attitudes and perspectives similar to those of RNMomOf7; . . . not per se strictly or personally to her.
posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 4:30:59 PM
(Times are a changin’ INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)